Type and caliber, weight and length, length of pull, attachment method, stabilizing brace design features, aim point, secondary grip, sights and scopes, peripheral accessories. Supreme Court decisions in our favor will help, but so long as the ATF exists it shall continue to harm and kill Americans because of incompetence, arrogance and outright criminality. The proposal seeks to evaluate AR pistol with braces on a case by case bases. As long as you don’t red Loctite the set screw in place, ATF considers it to be “temporarily placed” and “perfectly okay to shoulder.” (He didn’t beat around the bush on this topic.) Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. What does gunms have to do with booze, blombs and smokes? ATF getting citizens, LEO’s and their own officers shot and killed began with the Ken Ballew Raid in 1971. There are many gun rights groups that are on top of this situation, to include the Firearms Industry Consulting Group (FICP). But searching regulations.gov may or may not turn up the docket. Eg what weight? I enjoy hunting and recreational shooting. Billionaire Kelly Loeffler, millionaire David Purdue know all about cheating the citizens in order to enrich themselves. And he has someone like you blabbing all about it on the internet. It all started with the Bump Stock fiasco, that I believe is still in litigation thanks to Gun Owners of America and FICP. Don’t be such a racist! It was published in the Federal Register yesterday, as Docket No. Comments will be posted within a few days of being submitted. Like most guns eventually. “First of all, the ATF referenced the NRA Firearms Source Book and found where it described the length of pull on a rifle. Facsimile: Submit comments by facsimile transmission to (202) 648-9741. But ATF does not specify any “length of pull” that is presumptively acceptable. Arbitrary and capricious is what it is. Regulations MUST be written so that a reasonably intelligent and knowledgeable person can read them and understand them well enough to determine whether he is or is not in compliance. The contents of the document do not have the force and effect of law and are not meant to bind the public in any way. Including length of pull is a biggy. If this passes, we could be looking at mass orchestrated attack on our rights. @GS650G, it’s not a matter of your friends address. To submit your comments please follow the rules below: You may submit comments, identified by docket number ATF 2020R10, by any of the following methods—. So… since they are adding regulations… how many rules are they getting rid of as per Pres. This arm brace is designed to fold and latch on the TMP platform and clears the ejection port. Lots of different braces adjust for length of pull. 2020R–10. ATF and DOJ to Rule in on Pistol Braces…What to Expect? An objective definition of pistol brace would be: A device designed to aid a user in holding a large pistol with one hand, which extends no further than the user’s forearm when gripping the firearm normally, and which conforms to the user’s forearm. The ATF has proposed when evaluating firearms with an attached stabilizing brace to determine whether they are considered firearms under the National Firearms Act (NFA) and/or the Gun Control Act (GCA). ATF was advised by the first manufacturer to submit an arm brace for classification that the intent of the arm brace was to facilitate one-handed firing of the AR15 pistol for those with limited strength or mobility due to a handicap, and to reduce bruising to the forearm when firing with one hand. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Incorporation of sights or scopes that possess eye relief incompatible with one-handed firing may indicate that the weapon is not a “pistol” because they are designed to be used from a shoulder-fire position and are incompatible for the single-handed shooting that arm braces are designed and intended. Ronald Reagan came close but stopped well short of meaningful action. Is the current benchmark of 13.5 inches going to remain? . From what I can recall, KAK spoke with the ATF to get a better understanding of their stance on pistol braces. A SCOTUS ruling applying Strict Scrutiny, perhaps several such rulings, could be the solution. As long as you don’t red Loctite the set screw in place, ATF considers it to be “temporarily placed” and “perfectly okay to shoulder.” (He didn’t beat around the bush on this topic.) “The objective design features ATF considers in determining whether a weapon with an attached ‘‘stabilizing brace’’ has been ‘‘designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder’’ include, but are not limited to:”. Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. “There’s no way to rule innocent men. I’ve about had it with hearing your constant BS about nazi’s and the KKK….. It’s like YOU’RE STUCK IN THE 80’s or something….. Put another way, if the firearm has an overall length of less than 26 inches, it places it into a category of arms that could be considered to be regulated by … . A large caliber firearm that is impractical to fire with one hand because of recoil or other factors, even with an arm brace, is likely to be considered a rifle or shotgun. All properly completed comments received will be posted without change to the Federal eRulemaking portal, www.regulations.gov, including any personal information provided. ATF was advised by the first manufacturer to submit an arm brace for classification that the intent of the arm brace was to facilitate one-handed firing of the AR15 pistol for those with limited strength or mobility due to a handicap, and to reduce bruising to the forearm when firing with one hand. The planned “Objective Factors” document isn’t a brace ban and it isn’t a law. 2) Under vagueness doctrine, a statute is also void for vagueness if a legislature’s delegation of authority to judges and/or administrators is so extensive that it would lead to arbitrary prosecutions. ... the length of pull, barrel length, weight of the gun, the eye relief of the scope, and more. Any Rand was just another parasite wanting free stuff from the government. Third, the firearm cannot be designed to be fired from the shoulder. Truly a pair of SHTF guns. I said the same thing about him blabbing but my comment has been in mod jail since this morning. it only speaks in generalities. The GCA does not define the term “redesign” and therefore ATF applies the common meaning. I don’t seem to recall her ever stating that. Weight and Length. In an ATF letter obtained by firearms legal expert, attorney Adam Kraut, the ATF is no longer allowing overall gun measurements to include “stabilizing braces” used to brace the gun against the user’s forearm, meaning that many popular guns like the AR pistol could be under their standard length and subject to the National Firearms Act (NFA) regulations if they have a … If a brace is of a length that makes it impractical to attach to the shooter’s wrist or forearm, then that may demonstrate that it is not designed as brace but rather for shoulder fire. So unless you want to stand WITH real Americans, go stand with the rest of the boot licker crowd….. The subsequent deduction was that a length of pull of 13.5 inches must define a rifle. Installation of peripheral accessories commonly found on rifles or shotguns that may indicate that the firearm is not designed and intended to be held and fired with one hand. The type and caliber of firearm to which the stabilizing brace or similar item is installed. Sights and Scopes. ” not telling you what the speed limit is ”. Type and Caliber. Just like the billion dollar subsidies to big oil, we don’t have capitalism, we have crony capitalism was favoritism by the rich elites on Wall Street. They want their way…END OF DISCUSSION. . The Department of Justice (DOJ) is planning to “subsequently implement a separate process for current possessors of stabilizer-equipped firearms to choose to register such firearms in compliance with the NFA.”. The only time you ever see someone using it as a brace is to show that it’s a totally-legal-without-a-tax-stamp ‘pistol brace’ before promptly shouldering it. Attachment Method. Length of Pull. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. The document is not an administrative determination that any particular weapon equipped with a stabilizing arm brace is a “firearm” under the NFA. enuf…You slandered and libeled the POTUS and boasted about your guns and ammo purchases made possible off the backs of us who defeated hilliary rotten clintoon. Knowing they cannot totally act like the nazis SS and go door to door taking any and all means of self defense they poke at the Second Amendment with a stick like a brat would take a stick and poke it through a fence at the neighbor’s dog. After the publication date in the Federal Register, we will have 14 days to write comments and respond to this atrocious violation of our rights and to let them know we won’t stand for this. As it happens, the length of pull is a key component of the ATF’s claim regarding the Honey Badger. If each owner of a brace, or someone considering purchasing a braced pistol volunteers to contact the ATF in the method directed, this can be stopped, if not by our voices, than by the very weakness of the ATF: bureaucracy. I am a NC Paramedic that just happens to be a gun enthusiast. “The ATF Objectifies Pistol Stabilizing Braces”, Whatever turns them on…I’d rather “objectify” women…. “No single factor or combination of factors is necessarily dispositive, and FATD examines each weapon holistically on a case-by-case basis.”, That is no more than fancy language for Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart’s infamous, “I know it when I see it.”. What is needed are legal and political attacks upon the ATF leadership and individual transgressing agents and supervisors. The ATF has advised that a braced pistol with an LOP in excess of 13.5” may constitute a re-design of the host pistol and subject the pistol to restrictions under the National Firearms Act. I would like to hear them try to justify Gun Control when Gun Control is an agenda rooted in racism and genocide. Second, the barrel cannot be longer than 16 inches. Pistol Brace vs. Stock. Weight and Length. Different shooters have forearms of different length and thickness. . I think they are attempting to make lists….. lists that by law they ARE NOT allowed to make…. If the overall length of the firearm is under 26 inches, it places the firearm in a category to be regulated by the NFA. A pistol brace outwardly resembles a stock but is typically made of rubber for the most part, although there are some newer ones made of plastic or even metal. These are the well known but there are uncountable examples of the ATF terrorizing and harming common law abiding citizens simply because they can. What it is, is an on going threat to innocent lives and the rights of all people. Trumps orders? As long as your barrel is more than 12 inches. Debbie W. you voted for the first President to ever attempt a coup. The ATF has come up with a long winded and seeming difficult to decipher set of so-called standards that will help them determine how they will arbitrarily enforce this new policy. By including “length of pull” in the “factors,” the ATF starts with the assumption that a braced firearm is a short-barreled rifle until and unless it is proven otherwise. Submit comments in any of three ways (but do not submit the same comment multiple times or by more than one method). Appropriate aim point when utilizing the attachment as a stabilizing brace. It will just continue on and on unless we change something. Or the Gun Walking scandals of George W Bush and Barrack Obama administrations, resulting in LEO and citizen deaths on both sides of the border. Stay vigilant and stay up-to-date on this issue. Scuttlebutt has it that a brace with a LOP greater than 13.5 inches becomes magically irksome in the eyes of the ATF. Again, individuals and companies are getting arbitrary and sometimes contradictory advice from various ATF personnel. But if you use the Blade on a firearm that requires a large adapter of some sort, please make sure that you only use the dimples up to the point that you remain below the 13.5″ length. Under Pressure, ATF Rescinds Pistol Brace Notice; 12/24/2020 06:16 AM | Chris Eger. ATF Decisions on the Pistol Brace Vasquez explained, “The rubber tip rotated freely and had to be retained in place with a short length of cord. Should be easy to figure out his address and phone number. From what I can recall, KAK spoke with the ATF to get a better understanding of their stance on pistol braces. 2001). Third, the firearm cannot be designed to be fired from the shoulder. December 23, 2020 staff. They also timed it around the holidays while people are distracted. She made some clever and quotable statements but if you read interviews with her you would find that her thoughts on America are any thing but supportive of our culture. By requiring fair notice of what is punishable and what is not, vagueness doctrine also helps prevent arbitrary enforcement of the laws. On an AR-15, the “length of pull” for the Blade is approximately 13.13″, so no issues there. Within that conversation, the agent mentioned a length of pull no longer than 13.5”. In other words, firearms manufacturers have little to go on as far as revamping their designs. They’ll know what it is when they pull you over. The Ruby Ridge and Waco Raids being only the best known to people today. and they ain’t Santa claus…. Not seeing your point. Fits SBA3™/SBA4™ Pistol Stabilizing Braces. If a brace is of a length that makes it impractical to attach to the shooter’s wrist or forearm, then that may demonstrate that it is not designed as brace but rather for shoulder fire. so does this mean that if we just take the brace off and replace it with some foam padding on the length of the buffer tube and then cap the end with a tennis or racquet ball or some similar piece of shock absorbing material we can then have whatever caliber and weight we want and a forward grip and a 1-6x scope and a light and a laser and a sling and 45 degree sights, You’re not a “realist” You came up with a lazy excuse of justifying your cowardice with “da times”. Don’t judge me. Less than 26 inches Vs. Don’t blame the players blame the game man. Your favorite FPC attorney Bill Sack has an important message about the “Rule of Lenity.” Now what is the rule of lenity and how does it affect you? However, the letter does not offer any detailed guidance as to the specifics such as the calibers that make it a SBR, the specific length of pull, the weight, etc. You’d more likely be paranoid they’d come look you up and take away your customized Moisin Nagant and SKS. Stabilizing Brace Design Features. Peripheral Accessories. Makes you wonder. Unless they send agents to ranges or door to door with scales and measuring tape seems safe to completely ignore everything about this and just hope your local po-po doesn’t have any reason to jam you up for shits and giggles. If the nation did away with the un Constitutional 1934 NFA and 1968 GCA then the need for a also un Constitutionally authorized agency and they wouldn’t be infringing on We The Peoples rights. This is just the tip of the iceberg folks. . The ATF has come up with a long winded and seeming difficult to decipher set of so-called standards that will help them determine how they will arbitrarily enforce this new policy. Hey DEBBIE W. (Obviously a transgender weirdo)…. These items extend the distance between the trigger and the part of the weapon that contacts the shooter, whether it is a stock or stabilizing brace. Haley Strategic Partners D3CRM Micro Chest Rig – Good for the Money? Instructions: All submissions received must include the agency name and docket number (ATF 2020R-10). But it is really worse than that. If the brace uses a spacer or other buffer attachment found on a rifle, then the ATF will consider the firearm a rifle or shotgun. Although, this is just a rough draft, it appears that this may be published within the next few weeks in the Federal Register. Watch the video and shoutout your favorite executive agency that has violated this rule in the comments below!#FPC #2A #RKBA pic.twitter.com/6GaBYTElpc, — Firearms Policy Coalition (@gunpolicy) December 19, 2020. Here is a quote from an article on a case review published by Personal Defense World: "The ATF appears to use 13.5 inches as the maximum length a brace may extend behind the trigger face without being considered a shoulder stock. The end. With a brace, it can be as short as you want, but you can't exceed 13.5" because the ATF determined you're approaching stock territory, no matter what you want to call the attachment at the end of the buffer tube. brace for use as a shoulder stock makes a NFA firearm when attached to a pistol with a rifled barrel under 16 inches in length or a handgun with a smooth bore under 18 inches in length. No single factor or combination of factors is necessarily dispositive, and FATD examines each weapon holistically on a case-by-case basis. That determination was based on the fact that, according to the ATF’s measurements, the Maxim cheek rest — which had been altered with the addition of a rubber “cane tip” on the end — resulting in a length of pull that’s greater than the 13.5-inch limit the ATF says is the maximum for any similar AR pistol accessory. “First of all, the ATF referenced the NRA Firearms Source Book and found where it described the length of pull on a rifle. The ATF does not say how short a firearm’s LOP must be to be considered a pistol. If a brace is of a length that makes it impractical to attach to the shooter’s wrist or forearm, then that may demonstrate that it is not designed as brace but rather for shoulder fire. When you stand right up against the legal line and say, “DURRRR LOOK HOW CLEVER I AM!!! The method of attachment of the stabilizing brace, to include modified stock attachments, extended receiver extensions, and the use of spacers. We’re basically back to where we were before 2015. Written comments must appear in minimum 12-point font size (.17 inches), include the commenter’s first and last name and full mailing address, be signed, and may be of any length. My comment probably will have no effect, but who knows? The ATF has posted their position on stabilizer braces in the Federal Register today, and opened the issue up for public comment for the next fourteen days.. “To paraphrase from the NRA Firearms Sourcebook, most shoulder-fired firearms have a 13.5- to 14.5-inch length of pull. I recently started to review guns, gun accessories, and other gun related items on YouTube. Faxed. We might as well just say “Hocus Pocus” because the effect will be the same…They want their way…END OF DISCUSSION. This whole pistol brace thing would concern me, but the disingenuous nature of the whole ‘controversy’ just makes me roll my eyes. So here is the rundown. The 2A community created pistol braces as a way to circumvent SBR status. And your length of pull of the buffer tube is less than 13.5 inches. 2896 (2010). The little bastard won’t climb over the fence so he does what he can to aggravate the dog. And since one needs to register their info with ATF to make comments (I already have) I’m sure you didn’t bother. You bozo are not one to be talking and you should tried for treason. The ATF also considered the length of pull of firearms, and under this new guidance document, most if not all braces equipped on AR15 or AK47 type pistols would fail this proposed test. One of the components that could be under consideration by the ATF is the “Length of Pull” of braced firearm. IMO…This brace nitpicking is a sign of a mental illness coming from people with waaaay too much money and free time on their hands. Indeed, that appears to be because ATF has no fixed standard. Well, in recent news, the ATF seems to be formalizing plans for a pistol brace ruling. It is very important you all follow these instructions and voice your opinion. The ATF’s record is chock full of killing by way of incompetence, arrogance and enormous mistakes with zero accountability. “Length of pull”—for lack of a better word regarding pistol braces—begins to enter a “gray area” above 13.5″. Please keep the comment. Your email address will not be published. As part of that process, ATF plans to expedite processing of these applications, and ATF has been informed that the Attorney General plans retroactively to exempt such firearms from the collection of NFA taxes if they were made or acquired, prior to the publication of this notice, in good faith. Aim Point. Submitting Comments They’ve zero interest in compliance. UMP pistol arm brace, designed to fit the US made TMP receiver and any other pistol's that use the UMP style hinge. While on the other an unwillingness to see the and act decisively against the morally repugnant evil deeds. Unfortunately it’s becoming clear that this ATF action might be a real comment period, but I can assure you, they will not be taking your comments seriously…. The factors identified by the ATF for its possible use in classification include type, caliber, weight and length, how the gun is marketed, length of pull, sights and scopes, peripheral accessories mounted, and rear surface area of the brace, among others. U.S. judge allows extradition of two men accused of aiding Ghosn escape, Hot Pistol Tips from the US Army Marksmanship Unit, 5 Steps for Building a Personal Shooting Range, 16 page rough draft copy of proposed rulemaking. “It’s to the point where the ATF has become irrelevant.”, Free Clue – Add a ‘giggle switch’ to a firearm and show up a public gun range for a few mag dumps and see what happens to your ass…. Please note that the deadline for comments is January 4, 2021, meaning that they have only allowed all of 18 days for comments, not the usual 30 (or more). Some sources have said that the ATF expects your brace-equipped pistol to have a length of pull under 13.5 inches. All an owner of a CT “Other” need do is remove the offending brace. I’m still bitchin about that, gunm insurance, gotta have it sht. See 26 U.S.C. We are being honest actors, thinking rules, precedent, or laws will matter to dishonest actors. They’ve presented nominally objective factors. Again, the groundwork has been put into place and it appears that if this passes the only options are: register your Brace/Stabilizer, lengthen the barrel, destroy the brace, or destroy the pistol. Defense Chief Jackie Speir, calls to screen right leaning service members social media Accounts, SIG SAUER Completes Final Delivery of Next Generation Squad Weapon System to U.S. Army. Any other feature of the brace that improves the weapon’s effectiveness from the shoulder-firing position without providing a corresponding benefit to the effectiveness of the stability and support provided by the brace’s use on the arm. However, the problem is that nobody really knows. All while HIS ATF, being led by his guy, is taking steps against our rights. Appx. But none of that really matters because . The subsequent deduction was that a length of pull of 13.5 inches must define a rifle. This guidance does not alter in any way the Department’s authority to enforce federal law and is not intended to, does not, and may not be relied upon to create any rights, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law by any party in any matter civil or criminal. Is the current benchmark of 13.5 inches going to remain? I occasionally find the things the braces are attached to sexy. Telling them that they are a law enforcement agency, not Congress, so their rules are not law. Federal eRulemaking Portal: www.regulations.gov. Ayn Rand was a raving loon to be sure, but she wasn’t wrong about communism, or the power of selective enforcement. It appears that the fear mongering is in full force, just like it was not too long ago when the Honey Badger Pistol was under attack and when SB Tactical received their letter from the ATF. “So, you’re saying Debbie W voted for Bathhouse Barry?”, That’s not Ms. Inacker, it’s a fuckwit troll impersonating her…, Seems like your kind of agency, enuf.‍♂️. If that’s racist then the whole 4473 and background check is racist and since it’s a system it’s gotta be systemically racist. Length of Pull. I got a letter back from atf. An objective definition of pistol brace would be something like . In other words, there are no specific, “objective factors” for determining when a pistol equipped with a stabilizing brace will be considered a short-barrel rifle. The ATF’s proposed rule for determining whether a firearm is a stabilizer-braced pistol or a short-barreled rifle is open for comments. You’re a prime example of why we can’t have nice things. ... such as the apparent 13.5-inch “length of pull” limit. So if your gun’s LoP makes it perfect for shouldering, well, the ATF says you have an Short Barreled Rifle (or Shotgun). Please follow FICP on their webpage, Facebook, or IG for further details and actions. In addition to defining objective factors you must also define an objective process of using those factors in your determinations. Some things the ATF will use when considering if a given gun is a pistol with a stabilizing brace, or an unregistered SBR include… Length of pull. ATF has taken the position that once a vertical foregrip has been added to a firearm, it is no longer designed to be fired when held in one hand, removing it from the definition of a pistol, even though ATF previously lost this argument before the Ninth Circuit in U.S. v. Fix, 4 Fed. The length of pull is under the ATF suggested maximum length of 13.5 in. Further, ATF has consistently held that the overall length of 26 inches is the breaking point for concealability. This is unacceptable. This measurement is not necessarily determinative of the intent of the manufacturer but is used in making an evaluation of the firearm. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.”. Use of these items indicates that the weapon is designed and intended to be fired from the shoulder because they extend a stabilizing brace beyond a point that is useful for something other than shoulder support. Providing gun enthusiasts with a website that has meaningful, yet simple, gun and gear reviews since 2009. With the stock (assuming you have a 16" barrel), the length of pull can be anything. All Rights Reserved. but a festering, stinking DEBBIE W. grade pu$$y….. The left just does not care anymore about any honest discussion. We can say “2nd Amendment” or “Rule of Lenity” all we want. There are no concrete guidelines. “To paraphrase from the NRA Firearms Sourcebook, most shoulder-fired firearms have a 13.5- to 14.5-inch length of pull. Besides a fun party. Our Second Amendment rights are under heavy attack and on the brink of extinction if a certain administration has their way. They have a shorter length of pull and most often have straps of some type so that the shooter can attach it to their arm and fire it one-handed. 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For length of pull too much money and free time on their,. Regarding existing requirements under the radar, not one item with a greater. Like that why POTG are going to remain also, you lose the right or the internet assuming...